Dario Amodei: Anthropic CEO on Claude, AGI & the Future of AI & Humanity | Lex Fridman Podcast #452

Dario Amodei is the CEO of Anthropic, the company that created Claude. Amanda Askell is an AI researcher working on Claude's character and personality. Chris Olah is an AI researcher working on mechanistic interpretability.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep452-sb
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.

Transcript:
lexfridman.com/dario-amodei-transcript

CONTACT LEX:
Feedback - give feedback to Lex: lexfridman.com/survey
AMA - submit questions, videos or call-in: lexfridman.com/ama
Hiring - join our team: lexfridman.com/hiring
Other - other ways to get in touch: lexfridman.com/contact

EPISODE LINKS:
Claude: claude.ai/
Anthropic's X: x.com/AnthropicAI
Anthropic's Website: anthropic.com/
Dario's X: x.com/DarioAmodei
Dario's Website: darioamodei.com/
Machines of Loving Grace (Essay): darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace
Chris's X: x.com/ch402
Chris's Blog: colah.github.io/
Amanda's X: x.com/AmandaAskell
Amanda's Website: askell.io/

SPONSORS:
To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
Encord: AI tooling for annotation & data management.
Go to lexfridman.com/s/encord-ep452-sb
Notion: Note-taking and team collaboration.
Go to lexfridman.com/s/notion-ep452-sb
Shopify: Sell stuff online.
Go to lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep452-sb
BetterHelp: Online therapy and counseling.
Go to lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-ep452-sb
LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
Go to lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep452-sb

OUTLINE:
0:00 - Introduction
3:14 - Scaling laws
12:20 - Limits of LLM scaling
20:45 - Competition with OpenAI, Google, xAI, Meta
26:08 - Claude
29:44 - Opus 3.5
34:30 - Sonnet 3.5
37:50 - Claude 4.0
42:02 - Criticism of Claude
54:49 - AI Safety Levels
1:05:37 - ASL-3 and ASL-4
1:09:40 - Computer use
1:19:35 - Government regulation of AI
1:38:24 - Hiring a great team
1:47:14 - Post-training
1:52:39 - Constitutional AI
1:58:05 - Machines of Loving Grace
2:17:11 - AGI timeline
2:29:46 - Programming
2:36:46 - Meaning of life
2:42:53 - Amanda Askell - Philosophy
2:45:21 - Programming advice for non-technical people
2:49:09 - Talking to Claude
3:05:41 - Prompt engineering
3:14:15 - Post-training
3:18:54 - Constitutional AI
3:23:48 - System prompts
3:29:54 - Is Claude getting dumber?
3:41:56 - Character training
3:42:56 - Nature of truth
3:47:32 - Optimal rate of failure
3:54:43 - AI consciousness
4:09:14 - AGI
4:17:52 - Chris Olah - Mechanistic Interpretability
4:22:44 - Features, Circuits, Universality
4:40:17 - Superposition
4:51:16 - Monosemanticity
4:58:08 - Scaling Monosemanticity
5:06:56 - Macroscopic behavior of neural networks
5:11:50 - Beauty of neural networks

PODCAST LINKS:
Podcast Website: lexfridman.com/podcast
Apple Podcasts: apple.co/2lwqZIr
Spotify: spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
RSS: lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
Podcast Playlist:    • Lex Fridman Podcast  
Clips Channel: youtube.com/lexclips

SOCIAL LINKS:
X: x.com/lexfridman
Instagram: instagram.com/lexfridman
TikTok: tiktok.com/@lexfridman
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lexfridman
Facebook: facebook.com/lexfridman
Patreon: patreon.com/lexfridman
Telegram: t.me/lexfridman
Reddit: reddit.com/r/lexfridman